GHISLAINE MAXWELL: GUILTY - Everything You Need to Know

A jury found Ghislaine Maxwell guilty on 5 out of the 6 counts against her. She could face up to 65 years in jail, basically a life sentence. How did we get here and what happened in the court room? LET'S CHAT!!

Transcript

After a month long trial Jeffrey Epstein's main associate Ghislaine Maxwell, she's been found guilty of five out of the six counts, that she was on trial for. She could face up to 65 years in prison, and she's 60 years old turned 60 I believe on Christmas Day, which makes her a Capricorn. Something I'm not proud of, but if she's 60 years old, that could mean the rest of her life in prison. How did we get here? How did this trial unfold? Let's talk about it. Alright, if you're new here, my name is Leeja. I'm a real life lawyer on a mission to demystify the law and how it affects your everyday life. That being said, I may be a lawyer but I'm not your lawyer and nothing that I say should ever be construed as legal advice. You should always seek the advice of a licensed attorney before making any legal decisions. All right, you should see if you're on the YouTube you should see that there is a little fundraiser button down there that's right out of spite and pettiness. I am making this a fundraiser for RAINN. If upi don't know about rain. It's RAINN and they do, they're a national organization that works with survivors of sexual and domestic assault, violence, giving them the resources they need to heal and move on with their lives, whatever that may be. So give generously otherwise, super chats and super stickers are enabled. And if you click that join button down there. You could join me monthly, you get a little special icon by your name you get extra special extras in on YouTube here behind the scenes stuff and you get a priority response on comments. If you're interested in that in supporting this channel. But otherwise, I would say just give generously to RAINN. Okay. All right. So I made a video on this a few months ago when Prince Andrew was sued. Prince Edward? Prince Andrew, I can't remember I don't care about royalty. You'll see it in that video too. But after he was sued, I made a video so some of this is going to be repetitive if you watched that, but I want to give you background into both Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine because I feel like you need to know all of this in order to know kind of how we got here on this trial.

Okay. So I've watched like pretty much every--Andrew Thank you Katherine--pretty much every Ghislaine documentary available, but I'll keep it real simple. Okay. Epstein was this guy from Coney Island. Really this twerp he was college dropout. He charmed his way into the right rooms. He was also a Capricorn. Two Capricorns together, never a good idea, but I do not count him as one of my own obviously, but the power and the money hungry thing it does fit the bill. Okay, but you know, I digress. Alright. So first, we pull up these slides here. Oh, hell yeah. All right. He was first a teacher at this prestigious Manhattan grade school, which is a job he allegedly got by lying about his undergrad credentials, and it's this like really fancy Manhattan School. So he meets some really influential parents of his students. You know, it's unclear whether he perpetrated any abuse at that school. But there were rumors that he behaved inappropriately and clearly it was creepy that he was allowed around children. So he, after this, eventually weaseled his way into Wall Street, if you can, if you can believe it, because he met the right guy. You met the right guy through his connections at that school. And that guy was this guy, Alan Greenberg. Okay, he's the CEO of Bear Stearns, his kids went to the school. Epstein actually got fired from the school for poor performance and then immediately was offered this job at Bear Stearns like waltzed right in, makes no sense.

Okay, he starts at Bear Stearns in 1976. At the age of 23, as a low level junior assistant to a floor trader, and within four years he was made partner. Alright, this is some like American dream, bullshit that could only happen to a white man in the 70s and 80s. Alright, and I cannot imagine the amount of cuh-caine that was probably involved as well. All right, so he's 27. He's a partner at Bear Stearns and he's interacting with the wealthiest people in the world because he's helping them manage their money. It was a very powerful position for an allegedly charming guy to be in. Alright, anyway, he was then fired again, from Bear Stearns for like a securities violation of some sort, but it was never reported and he remained friends with his clients and the people he worked with there seem to not really damage his reputation, even a little bit. Okay. Now he went to open his own consulting firm. Right after that the 80s are a bit of a blur as to what exactly he was doing. Some people allege that he was with the CIA, potentially and was working with arms dealers during the Iran Contra conflict. Okay. It's unclear to me why the CIA would want someone like a college dropout like him but you know, he may be lied this way in maybe he woo'd the right people and they didn't care about his background or lack thereof, I don't know. Okay. Then in the late 80s, Epstein found his own financial management firm, and one of his clients was billionaire Leslie Wexner. This guy.

He was the CEO of L brands, formerly the limited. Limited Too, anyone ever go there as a tween? I certainly did. And of Victoria's Secret. Okay, so Epstein was given incredible control over this guy's fortune, and he was also given access to Wexner's sprawling Ohio mansion. And you know, it's got to be a really huge mansion because it's in Ohio. A million bucks gets you pretty far there. Alright. Anyway, Epstein was paid millions to manage Wexner's money and he used these connections to get into Victoria's Secret shows and also claimed that he was recruiting Victoria's Secret models, which is a very enticing connection to make when you're a young girl interested in modeling. You're looking for a big break. Right? So with these millions that he was earning, he had numerous properties, including an island in the Virgin Islands, the largest private residence in Manhattan, a ranch in New Mexico and a mansion in Palm Beach, Florida, which is apparently a place where rich people live. I said this in the last video but I'll truly never understand why you would take your millions and go to Florida but that's beside the point. Anyway, okay. It was at those locations in the Wexner mansion in Ohio where he perpetrated his abuse of minors especially in Florida. You would have people and by people I mean Ghislaine Maxwell, hunt out girls underage girls and have them come to his place in exchange for money. Usually under the ruse that they were going to like train these girls as to how to be masseuses so they could like gain a skill, I don't know. And then he they would come and he they would both assault them sometimes just Jeffrey Epstein sometimes both. And notably, they would specifically target girls in Palm Beach in the poorer area because working class girls will be more desperate for a chance at some cash. You know, they specifically targeted vulnerable teen girls from broken homes, you know, pretty messed up okay.

He was eventually charged back then with procuring minors for prostitution in Florida. But this time for some reason the district attorney who was Alexander Acosta, this guy, who by the way eventually became Trump's Secretary of Labor. This guy, he offered Epstein a sweetheart non prosecution agreement deal where Epstein would plead guilty to two counts, even though upwards of 30 girls came forward saying that he assaulted them and he would serve 18 months in prison and be registered as a sex offender. Okay, so this is in 2008. He serves his jail sentence during which he's given special privileges like he can leave his cell for 16 hours a day on work release and his cell door is never locked, he has his own rooms where a TV is installed for him. And he was also registered as a sex offender in New York City and he had to theoretically check in with his probation officer every 90 days. But it turns out that that requirement requirement was never enforced. So he serves his time, kind of basically just sleeping at night in the cell and then he walks free in 2010 and got to just continue living his life I guess. However, you then you know, probably know the story from there. Enough gets out about him and another investigation unfolds. He gets arrested while in custody, he commits suicide.

Okay, now I'm not going to go down a rabbit hole of Jeffrey Epstein conspiracies here because frankly, that can overlap with like weird Q anon stuff, and I'm not interested in discussing the mess. It is suspicious. It is suspicious that he died while he was supposed to be on suicide watch and there are many pictures of him with some very important people like Prince Andrew like Bill Clinton like Trump, indicating that he could potentially have some dirt on some very important people. All right, yes. Suspicious, okay. Unfortunately, however, I think often the myth and the conspiracies tend to be more interesting than the reality. So I'd caution against buying in too deeply into conspiracy theories. There's really at this point, very little way to know the truth. All right. Okay. That's Jeff. That's a quick quick background. Good old Jeff.

Let's get into Ghislaine. Okay, so who is Ghislaine? Let's pull her up here. Moira has popped up to say hello. She might pop into the screen. Moira is my english bulldog if you're new here. Okay. So she's the daughter of Robert Maxwell who was a very wealthy media tycoon or was in England, and he was known for being exceptionally harsh and controlling, having a bad temper. Okay. However, she was Daddy's favorite, apparently. All right. She attended Oxford University and was quite the socialite in London in the 80s. She's very well connected because of her father's wealth and influence. And that was where she initially met Jeffrey Epstein. Oh, their mutual through their mutual wealthy friends. However, their relationship wouldn't blossom until later. Okay. Then in 1991 Julian's father mysteriously dies Alright, reportedly by accidental drowning off his yacht, classic, but Ghislaine maintains that he was murdered. Okay. We still don't really know the answer, but soon after it was discovered that he had fraudulently appropriated the pensions of the employees of his media empire, and there were reportedly over 440 million pounds in pension funds missing that affected 30,000 people and the workers then just didn't get their pensions that they'd spent years earning it was just gone. Okay. Oh, boy Moira's rearranging things. Alright, so the government bankrupted the family to get the money back for the people that were stolen from. And then the Maxwell reputation was completely ruined.

Okay. So in 91 amidst the scandal, Ghislaine Maxwell moves to New York City. She kind of wants to fly under the radar for a little bit. Thanks to an apparently untouchable trust account that her father had established for her in Liechtenstein, she was receiving a yearly income of $80,000 So she was doing fine. Okay. That's a 1991 dollars and amounts today to around 160,000 a year that she was just getting so she was fine. There the connections she already had, she managed to work her way up in the social scene in New York as well, as well as she had in London throughout the 90s. And she was seen as like very effervescent, vivacious person who just like drew people to her, which is something that I feel like is said a lot about criminals like this and I, I find it hard to believe because she, she just doesn't look like the type of person that I would go into a party and be like, Oh my gosh, I have to be friends with her. You know, I I like to think that my powers of reading people are better than that. But you know, what, what do I know? Okay, anyway, so it's during this time in the 90s, that she reconnected with Epstein. And the relationship blossomed, okay.

It's unclear, though, whether they were in an actual relationship or you know what they were. She was his assistant. She kind of ran his life, hired and fired all his staff found him girls to assault Okay. Some speculate that she wanted to be in a relationship with him, but he just like wouldn't commit. Probably because he was a podophile, you know, anyway, there have been parallels drawn between him and her father, you know, controlling men that she wanted to please so he just kind of took the role of her father who's to say, the psychology of all this is fascinating and also a little horrifying. Okay.

Anyway, so then within this last decade, Maxwell has been named a defendant in a number of civil lawsuits in which the alleged victims of Epstein came forward and claim that Ghislaine co conspired with him and even committed the abuse herself. Okay, one of the the central figures is that in that, in a lot of those accusations is a woman by the name of Virginia Roberts, aka Virginia Giuffre, who alleges she was recruited by Maxwell in 1999 when she was a minor working as a spa attendant at Trump's Mar a Lago resort where the Mac where Maxwell and Epstein frequented, an interesting connection. Trump has been pictured numerous times with Epstein but I don't know man, that doesn't really seem to bother anyone who still supports him but that's fine. Okay. So Virginia Giuffre sues Maxwell in court for defamation in 2016 because Maxwell called her a liar for her accusations, right. They eventually settled out of court, and Maxwell allegedly paid Virginia millions of dollars. Okay, so Virginia is the one who sued Prince Andrew in an ongoing lawsuit, which I already mentioned and made a video about, but she wasn't part of Maxwell's trial that just concluded, even though she's probably the most vocal of Epstein's alleged victims. We don't know exactly why, you know, that's a prosecutorial decision but it's the rise of the prosecution left her out because of all the work that so many powerful people that she's accused have done to question her credibility over the past decade. Plus she alleges abuse that happened in other jurisdictions like Florida and New Mexico. This indictment was filed in the Southern District of New York, so potentially would have muddied the trial if she had been included. We don't know for sure though. Okay, so that's 2016

After Epstein's death, Maxwell pretty much flew under the radar. She was really nowhere to be found, until she was arrested in New Hampshire in July 2020 after trying to flee the FBI when they showed up in her giant 156 acre compound in Bradford. Okay, but they found her, they got her they indicted her, they charged her and her trial began in November, this past November, I've linked her indictment. If you're on YouTube, it's in the it's in the description down below. They're originally eight counts against her. Six specifically stemming from 1994 2004 and the actions she allegedly took to aid Epstein's sex crimes, and two stemming from lying under oath in her testimony in that 2016 defamation lawsuit brought by Virginia Giuffre, the two counts of perjury have been severed from the other six counts, and those are going to be tried separately. So she still has another trial coming up, theoretically. So the trial that just concluded was just for six counts.

So I'll let you read the indictment if you want to. It's pretty graphic, but they're basically accusing Ghislaine of grooming girls knowing they were underage and knowing that Epstein wanted to assault them and that she participated in some of the assaults and the complaint mentions four minor victims that are the subject of the charges against Ghislaine. They say that Ghislaine groomed these girls by befriending them, normalizing sex talk and nudity and then coaxing them into having sex with Epstein because having an adult woman in the room made the girls feel more at ease. And because of the abuse happened across state lines, the Feds got involved this is a federal lawsuit in federal court. They were having children go from New York to Florida to a ranch in New Mexico to an island in the Caribbean and all the while, in a larger scheme to perpetuate and perpetrate this abuse. So she's charged with conspiracy and with transporting and enticing minors to travel to engage in illicit sexual acts as well as trafficking, conspiracy and sex trafficking of a minor. That's that's what they charged her with. And then like I said separately, she's going to be charged for perjuring herself during sworn testimony in that defamation lawsuit that Virginia Giuffre filed, and in that testimony, Ghislaine Maxwell said she swore that she had no knowledge of Epstein engaging in any sexual acts with anyone other than herself in the 90s and 2000s. She had no knowledge of him having any sex toys, and she'd never given Epstein massages, all of which was false. Okay. I imagine the perjury claims were severed because they're related to a separate incident, a separate lawsuit from 2016, which is separate from what's being alleged in the indictment. So it makes sense to have kind of divided it to keep the trial a little bit more contained. Alright. So four victims were named in the indictment like I said, and all four of them testified against Ghislaine. One went by the name Jane. She testified that she met Epstein when she was 14 years old, in 1994, at a summer camp where he was a benefactor, and he offered to mentor her. She said that Maxwell felt like an older sister and played that role, but then the abuse started happening and it was perpetrated by both Ghislaine and Epstein in Florida and in Manhattan over the course of a number of years. And this testimony helped to support the claims that Ghislaine groomed girls for Epstein as part of their conspiracy, because she normalized things and acted as if things was things were totally casual and normal when they like very much were not okay. On cross exam, for Jane and for all of these witnesses, the defense tried to discredit the victim by calling into question their motives for coming forward and trying to undermine their credibility by pointing out inconsistencies and their stories because some of these women were abused two decades ago. And so that they over the years have had inconsistencies in their stories. So the defense really tried to play that out. And what related Jane for one of the charges Ghislaine was found not guilty, and that was the charge of enticing a minor to travel to engage in illegal acts, but she was found guilty for transporting a miner with intent to engage in criminal acts related to Jane the first witness, which indicates that the defense successfully undermined Jane's testimony that's for to the jury had reasonable doubt as to whether the actual acts actually occurred or were committed by Ghislaine but they didn't have reasonable doubt as to Ghislaine's intent. So that's that's the one count that they didn't find her guilty on. Okay.

And there is Kate the second one who met Epstein through a boyfriend when she was 17 and was asked by Ghislaine to give Epstein massages. And Ghislaine knew that she was he was abusing her and arranged for her travel to his various houses. But Kate was technically over the age of consent. So the minor the minor abuse charges don't relate to her but her testimony helped to bolster Maxwell's knowledge of what was going on and her participation in this larger conspiracy.

And then there was Carolyn, it's the third witness who came forward. She was 14 years old when she started going to Epstein's house in Palm Beach. She was one of those girls that they recruited in the early 2000s. And then she went back over 100 times and was paid $300 Every time she went and every time she went abuse occurred. On cross exam, the defense focused a lot on her on inconsistencies in her statements. They cross examined her for over two hours, accused her of trying to get money for her testimony. But the jury did find Ghislaine guilty of the counts of sex trafficking and conspiracy related to Carolyn.

And then Annie Farmer was the fourth one she was the only one who actually went by her full name. And she has been really outspoken against Ghislaine and Jeffrey for years. She met Jeffrey in 95 and was flown to his ranch in New Mexico in 96 when she was 16. And it was there that Ghislaine actually perpetrated abuse against her. So those were the four witnesses that came forward during trial.

Maxwell the defense had a two day defense. I think Maxwell did not testify in her own defense, which is her right and probably for the best I don't really know what she could have added it's a common choice to not have the defendant testify on their own behalf. And then in closing arguments, the prosecution argued that Ghislaine's relationship to Epstein was key to this abuse because him acting alone would have probably been creepy would have set off alarm bells if this old man was like come to my house and give me a massage. Okay, but I mean an older age appropriate woman there with him was kind and inviting and groomed them and normalized talk of sex and other inappropriate behavior helps to draw girls in and to make them feel safe or like everything was normal and helps to perpetrate this abuse. And then the prosecution also pointed out that the witnesses against Ghislaine all had very similar stories. So any inconsistencies were pretty minor, that overall the similarities of their stories should you know show that they're pretty credible. And in closing arguments, the defense tried to separate Ghislaine from Jeff Epstein saying that it was maybe a mistake for her to have been with Jeffrey okay, but it wasn't a crime. All right, and that the whole trial was about Jeffrey not about her and she was just being used as a scapegoat. They also said that her accusers had ulterior motives for coming forward, and that they hadn't kept their story straight over the years. Okay. And then they also suggested Ghislaine herself, was actually being manipulated by Epstein. All right. However, the defense's words clearly weren't convincing and the jury returned a guilty verdict on five out of the six counts against Maxwell. She could face up to 65 years in prison.

Alright, so the next step for Maxwell is for her sentencing hearing which has yet to be scheduled. Okay. And at sentencing, the victims have the opportunity to speak and she will have an opportunity to speak and make a statement, and then the judge will announce her sentence and the way that sentencing works is the judges often given information about the defendant and her background and history and what's known as a pre sentencing report. And the judge will take that into consideration and weigh it against what is found at trial and the verdicts. Okay, and then the judge also looks at what are called sentencing guidelines. Each federal crime comes with sentencing guidelines, which which help judges determine an appropriate sentence. So they look at mitigating factors like good behavior or a difficult personal history etc. To see if the sentence should be lesser or it looks at the severity of the crime and the heinousness of the crime to potentially increase the sentence. Judges are also guided by the statute itself the criminal statute itself which provides maximum and minimum sentences sometimes which the judges have to adhere to. So taking all of this information into consideration weighing the verdict, the judge then makes a determination as to how long she should spend in prison. So the maximum is 65 years, but the judge can go lower than that, too.

Now, there has been speculation that Ghislaine will try to work to get the prosecutors to recommend a lesser sentence in exchange for her cooperation basically for naming names, because theoretically, she maybe has a lot of dirt on a lot of people. But some people are saying that it could be a strategy that she's already tried earlier before this even went to trial, but it was rejected. The government might already know everything that she has to tell them or might not want to let her get off that easily. I don't know that remains to be seen. So sentencing will take place sometime in the next weeks or months. But Ghislaine's lawyers and family have vowed that they'll appeal the verdict. It's not clear how successful a appeal will be, though, so people are speculating a few things that they could appeal on. They could argue that the judge was wrong when she barred the defense witnesses from remaining anonymous, which happened, or she was wrong when she didn't allow the defense to recall two of Maxwell's accusers to the stand. That could be something though I'll remind you they have all had the chance to thoroughly cross examine the witnesses. They also could bring up the fact that the judge told jurors they would have to deliberate through the New Year holiday because of her concern with COVID. So she was like if you don't figure this out now like no, you're not getting new year's day off. You're gonna just have to keep going. Because remember, this was in the Southern District of New York and New York is experiencing a huge COVID surge right now. So the judge was understandably concerned that someone could get exposed. If this kept going on longer and longer than there have to be quarantining and it would derail the entire trial. So they could so So Ghislaine could appeal and say that the pressure that the judge put on the jurors affected the outcome of the trial. Okay, and then apparently, there's also an Epstein Victims Fund, which has paid out millions of dollars to like 150 of his alleged victims, and the four victims who testified against Ghislaine have received money upwards of $5 million, which is something that they could bring on appeal as something that materially could have affected the outcome of the trial, potentially. But the thing is that bringing these things on appeal is a difficult battle because Ghislaine would have to prove that the judge either violated the rules of evidence or abused her discretion, which is a really high bar and even if the Appeals Court were to find that the judge did abuse her discretion, they would then have to find that the abuse affected the outcome of the case such that Ghislaine didn't receive a fair trial. That's high bars all around. And in doing that, the appeals court looks at all the factors. Okay, I think it would be pretty unlikely that an appeals court would say that the judges concern about this COVID surge was unjustified such that she fully abused her discretion when she told the jurors that they would have to stay for a day you know, it's not to say that it definitely for sure didn't affect jury deliberations or anything, but I just it probably didn't affect it so much that a denied. Ghislaine a fair trial. You know what I mean? But those are all different things, that they probably are prepping to appeal, but it remains to be seen, so time will tell what Ghislaine's sentence will be or if any of her appeals will hold water but it will certainly certainly be an uphill battle for her.

Alright, with that I'll take some questions, I friends. I mean, let me see if we can pull up this chat. I don't know if you can even see that very well. Send me some of your questions, friends. Moira is for once this entire stream quietly waiting and listening. Oh, well, you're welcome for doing the video. I'm thrilled that people have found me through that. It's been it's been really fun. So the one count that she was not found guilty on was related to her whether or not she actually perpetrated some abuse against the first witness, Jane, and I think that the defense effectively questioned Jane enough that it created some doubt in the minds of jurors as to whether or not Ghislaine actually committed what Jane was claiming. But they did still find her guilty for having the intent to commit these crimes. I mean, do I think Biden will pardon Maxwell? No. I mean, well, Biden has been a slew of disappointments for the last, you know, year and a half or a year. It's only been a year. What is time. Has been a slew of disappointments. I don't think he's gonna pardon her though. Could charges be brought from Florida? You know, I don't know, because there was that sweetheart prosecution deal that he got from from Acosta. And so any one that was included in that, I don't know that they could be. At least not those incidents could be included in a new charge from Florida but I guess that wasn't Ghislaine so I guess they could. Usually in cases like this because it's like, she's going to be sentenced to like probably more than the her life expectancy. It's not really worth government dollars to bring more charges. You know what I mean? Like they got her. She's going to prison. But we'll see. Yes, this is a live stream. Hello. I know. Underage recruited from Mar a Lago. No one looked into that. I don't know. I don't know how they got away with this for so long. I really feel like money and influence and friends in the right places is you know, gonna get you a long way. Right. How does this affect Prince Andrew? That's a really interesting question. I didn't look super deep into that. I would imagine that that picture of him with with Virginia Giuffre and Ghislaine Maxwell in the background probably all the more damning, at the very least, because Ghislaine is now a convicted criminal. So, you know, I'm not sure but I think that's a really interesting question. Let's see. He and I both feel she'll face the same fate as Jeff. I, you know, I had that thought too. I feel as though nothing. Bomb No bombshells came out during this trial. Because they wow I'm sorry. I was gonna go down some conspiracy roads there. Jeff Epstein killed himself in prison before he ever went to trial. I think that if someone wanted to off her to keep things from coming out, they would have done it before trial because everything was going to come out that was gonna come out, you know, and we didn't get bombshells like we didn't get smoking gun evidence of people in really high places doing obviously, criminal things and also I feel like I feel like if they were going to do it, they would have done it. If if if conspiracy theories were to be believed, which again question your question conspiracy theories, because reality tends to be a lot more boring. How does this affect Clinton and Trump with Trump with this verdict? I don't think it does. They weren't on trial, just chillin. Um, let's see. And Andrew just asked for all witness testimony to be suppressed in his legal action. Is this really rare in the US? Um, it's certainly not really rare. I don't know I would have to look into it. I haven't had I haven't had my finger on the pulse of that Prince Andrew suit I've been so distracted Yeah.

Other big people that are going to go down if Ghislaine names names, I mean, your guess is as good as mine. The the wild thing is that Jeff Epstein had allegedly cameras all over all of his compounds. Some people theorize that it was to you know, collect blackmail so that the powerful people coming in wouldn't ever turn him in because they knew that they had something on them. You know, I don't know if that's true or not though. But I mean, there are there are already pictures out there of like Bill Clinton on his island, you know, so like, who's to say there's a lot of power and money here that like that tends to pad people and protect them from actually having to deal with any real consequences? Yes, so is there any way for cooperating saying names get less lesser sentence? People are saying that she might. People are also saying that she probably maybe had already offered to do that before hitting trial. So they probably wouldn't accept it now, you know, but it's it's being speculated we don't really know. Um, let's see. Yes, Maxwell will have to wait in jail until sentencing. Love the straw, this thing? I don't know. It's plastic. I think IKEA IKEA. Oh, Moira has joined ah, they did have a black book of victims. They might have I'm going to have Moira join our discussion. They had a black book of victims names. I think they had a book of other people too, but I don't know if that was included in this trial. What do you think Moira? Just a little doggy palate cleanser after a very heavy subject. Ah, you know, it's really it's really hard to hard to know, if other people are going to be brought down. I feel like if there were bombshells we would have heard about them at this point. There's so much there's so much you know, back and forth and documentation in this trial that it's kind of impossible to know all of the evidence, but who's to say I'm gonna end it here though. And I thank you guys so much for joining me. I feel like ending it with Moira on my lap is a really nice way to just cleanse my palate, heavy subjects, my friends, but we got through it again. Please give to RAINN there should be a donate button if you're watching on YouTube. Yeah, I'm just this is fun. Yeah, you know she she can't breathe very well. So she snores at all times. Isn't that right? Alright, thanks for being here. This has been fun. I'm hoping to do more of these kind of when big trials and Elizabeth Holmes verdict should be out soon. So I'd like to do one on Elizabeth Holmes and moving forward just kind of stay on top of trials in this way and kind of a live stream mode and trying out different different chat things, different ways of kind of streaming across multiple platforms. This should be live over on twitch as well. Twitter, Facebook, like I'm trying to get trying to reach everyone. Yeah, Katya tweeted at me. My life has been made. So it's been a great week. I hope you have a great New Years. We made it through 2021 I'd say keep the resolutions light for 2022 don't make any sudden movements. We're surviving not thriving. You know what I mean? So thank you for being here. I hope that everyone has a great evening and a great New Years and I'll see you in 2022 Bye.